【海外の反応】本好きの下剋上1期13話、「ベンノってほんとツンデレだな」

で、なんで神殿はフリーダを狙わないんだ？もう貴族のところに行くことが決まってるから関係ないってことか

So why isn't the church going after Frieda? I guess since she's already going to a noble it doesn't matter.

神殿って身食いの平民を探すのが相当下手らしいな。あの粛清の話はわりと最近のことなんだと思っとく。じゃなきゃ、魔力の電池にする病弱な子どもを求めて平民の家を探し回ってないのはおかしすぎる。
仮に探してたとしても、フリーダの親父は頭がいいから、交渉中の貴族の外には娘の体のことを隠し通すだろ。なんなら、神殿に入ったら契約で死ぬような魔術の契約をもう結ばせてるかもな

>>1

The church is apparently doing a pretty bad job looking for commoners with the devouring. I'm going to assume the purge thing was fairly recent, because otherwise it's insane that they aren't already searching commoners home for sickly children to use as mana batteries.
Even if they were searching though Frieda's Dad is smart enough to keep her condition a secret outside of the noble circle he's negotiating with. Hell he might have already made her sign a magic contract that makes her unable to join the church without the contract killing her.

誰にでも使える一番基本の魔法って何か考えてみろよ。
きっと魔力を無駄に使って何もしない、みたいなまったく役に立たない魔法だろ？
その魔法を身食いの子ども全員に教えればいい。ほら解決。みんな助かるし、延命に何百万も払わなくて済む

Think about what the most basic spell that anyone could possibly do is.

Surely it's a spell that does something completely useless like waste mana to do nothing, right?

Well take that spell and teach it to all the kids with the devouring. Boom. Problem solved. They all live and you don't have to spend millions of credits on life support.

でも誰が身食いなのか知る方法が無いんだよ。マインなんて同じ町にいたのに、誰も気づいてなかったんだぞ

>>3

But they have no way of knowing if someone HAS the Devouring. Hell, Mine was in the same damn town and they had no idea.

聖杯に触れよ。
本を授かれ。
歓喜せよ

Touch the Grail.
Receive Hon.
REJOICE

>魔力を持った平民はそのまま死ぬだけ
>貴族は延命と引き換えにタダで魔力をもらおうとしない
設定の穴だな

>commoners who have magic just end up dying
>nobles aren't using them to get free mana in exchange of helping them live
The plot holes

でもすごく珍しい病気なんだろ。死ぬ前に（洗礼式より前に死ぬわけだし）見つけられる可能性のために、子どもを全員定期的に調べる価値はあるとも言えるけど、神殿には人手も金も無さそうだし、貴族は自分たちの世界に閉じこもってるし、どっちも変化に対応するのが遅そう

>>6

It's an extremely rare condition though. You could say it's arguably worth to bother checking every kid periodically just for the chance of finding one before it dies (which will happen before baptism), but the church doesn't seem to have resources and the nobles live in their own buble, and both seem slow to adapt.

ベンノが言ってたけど、貴族は魔力持ちの平民を嫌ってるんだよな。神殿を仕切ってるのは貴族だから、汚い平民の指で命を救う魔術具に触らせるくらいなら死なせたほうがマシって考えなんだろう。でも魔力のある貴族が足りないから、平民を受け入れるしかないと

Benno said how the Nobility hated commoners with mana. Since Nobles run the church, they probably would rather let them die let them put their dirty peasant fingers on life saving magical artifacts. But since there's not enough nobles with mana they have no choice but to accept a commoner.

フリーダは神殿と関わるより今の道を選んだってことなんだろうな。その選択肢があることも家族から聞かされてたはずだし

Apparently Freida would rather do what she's doing than get mixed up in the church, since her family would have informed her of that possibility as well

よく分からないのは、聖杯に触ると両方得するってことだよ。神殿は魔力が手に入って、子どもは身食いを抑えられる。何が問題なんだ？
子どもが神殿を必要とするほど、神殿は子どもを必要としてないから、こんな厳しい条件を付けられるってことかね

What I don't get is that if touching the grail benefits both parties, because the church gets mana and the kids get their Devouring placated, why there's any problem at all.
I guess the kids need the church more than the church needs them, so the church can attach these draconian requirements.

フリーダは貴族街に入れるから、むしろあの関係を望んでるんだよ

Frieda actually does want that relationship for the access to the noble quarter.

ベンノってほんとツンデレだなｗ 彼が手を回してくれたおかげで、マインは神殿に入るとき今よりずっといい立場になれる。仕事の融通が利いて、家族にも自由に会いに行けるようになるといいな。神殿についての情報をたくさん出してくれたのがすごく好き。マインは神殿にとって歩く魔力発生装置みたいなもんだから、入ってほしがるのも当然か。
マインがこれからもルッツと一緒に働けるのは本当によかった。
うわ、休みに入るまであと1話しかない。あ、第2期の前にOVAが出るって今気づいた。いいね。
今日のエンドカード

Lol, Benno is such a tsundere, thanks to his help Maine will have a much better position by the time she joins the church, hopefully that means that she will be able to get more flexibility regarding her work and that they will allow her to visit her family freely. I really love all the info about the church that they had given us, so their interest in Maine joining them increased because she is essentially a walking mana generator for them.

I'm really glad that Maine will be able to keep working with Lutz.

Damn just one episode left until the break, [oh I just noticed that there is an OVA coming](https://myanimelist.net/anime/40841/Honzuki_no_Gekokujou__Shisho_ni_Naru_Tame_ni_wa_Shudan_wo_Erandeiraremasen_OVA) before season two begins, how nice.

[Today's end card.](https://i.imgur.com/OjfFK50.png)

これまでのエンドカードはいい感じだったけど、今回のはなんか気味が悪い

so far the end cards have been pretty nice by this is weirding me out

マインが聖杯に触ったときの神殿長、よだれ垂らしそうな顔してたから、こいつは信用できないと思う。
それはそれとして、もっと大事なのは、父ちゃんに神官長っていう新たなライバルが現れたことだな

The fact that the bishop was just about salivating when Maine touched the grail makes me think he is not to be trusted.
That being said, the more important fact is that Dad-san has even more competition now in the form of Head Priest guy.

時臣が聖杯に触らせるとか…やれやれ

Tokiomi letting her touch the grail smh.

本好きの世界じゃ貴族だからな。アニメで貴族のいい話なんて聞いたことがない。だって、大人になった途端に愛人になるのが、身食いの子にとっての「いい」条件なんだぞ。
それに、孤児を二級の神官みたいにこき使う神殿が、平民の子を思いやる慈悲深い組織とは思えない

Well he´s a noble in the Bookwormverse. I never heard anyone say saomething good about nobles in the anime. I mean being a mistress as soon as you are grown up, is a "good" deal for a kid with devouring.
Also a church which works orphans to the bone as some kind of priest 2nd class doesn´t sound like a charitable organisation full of compassion and concern for commoner kids.

マインが襟首つかまれて引きずられていく「いやぁぁ」の場面ｗ
今回はマインのいいリアクションがいっぱいあった…実はルッツと同じでちょっと怖いんだよな。マインが神殿に移ったら、この作品の雰囲気が変わっちゃいそうで。最終回と第2期でどうなるのか、めちゃくちゃ気になる！

That "Noooo" scene when Myne was being dragged by the collar

Lot of good Myne reactions in this one...I'm a bit scared like Lutz is actually, like if/when she moves to the church I feel like the show won't have the same vibe. REALLY curious to see the finale and season 2 to see where they take it!

ちょっと思ったんだけどさ…みんなマインに対してやたら怒るのが変だなって時々思う。世間知らずの…7歳の女の子だぞ？
「巫女になろうかと思って」「よくもそんなことを！」って、いやいや、あの子が神殿についてどれだけ知ってるか分かってるよな？ずっと寝込ませてたのはそっちだろ。同じように、周りの反応が行きすぎだと感じることがある。7歳の女の子なんだよ。何も知らなくて当たり前。ほとんど家から出たことがないマインならなおさらだ。
いい作品なのは変わらないけど、「7歳にもなって物を知らないマインにみんなが怒る」流れは、さすがに新鮮味がなくなってきた

Y' know, just a bit of a thought... I find it strange sometimes how angrily everyone reacts to Main when, y' know, she's a sheltered... 7 year old girl?

Like "I'm thinking about becoming a priestess" "HOW F*****G DARE YOU" - well, uh, you know how much she knows about the church, right? 'Cause you've had her bedridden most of her life. In a similar vein, I sometimes feel others' reactions are out of line. It's a 7 year old girl. They don't know a damn thing. Main would be especially and obviously difficult given she's barely left the home.

Still good show, just the "everyone gets angry at Main for not knowing things at the ripe age of 7" is just losing its novelty for me.

大人っぽく振る舞うから、7歳だってことをみんな忘れるんだよ

Because she acts mature people forget she's just seven.

キャラが悪いというより、作品自体がマインの年齢を忘れてる気がする。致命的ってほどじゃないけど、子どものキャラが設定の年齢らしく喋りも振る舞いもしないっていう、アニメによくある問題は確実にある。マインは20年以上の人生経験を隠し持ってるからまだ分かるけど、ルッツなんて普通に大人の喋り方だし

I don’t blame the characters so much as it seems to me the show itself forgets how old Main is. While it’s not a deal-breaker for the show, it definitely has the common anime problem of child characters who do not speak or behave anything like their canonical ages. It makes a little bit of sense for Main herself since she has 20+ years of hidden life experience, but Lutz also just flat-out sounds like an adult.

子どもっぽさが出る場面も何度かあるけど、幼いうちから責任や仕事をいっぱい背負わされてることを考えても、大人びすぎてる感じはする

I think their childishness shines through several times but they feel way too mature even considering that they get a lot of responsibility and duties thrown at them at a young age.

神官長との聖典の朗読、急に終わりすぎじゃなかった？一文くらいしか読んでないだろｗ
あと、ルッツとマイン、先週の手つなぎから抱きつきにまで進展したな。そのあとマインの着信音にしたくなる「いやぁぁ」

Did anyone else think that the scripture reading with the Head Priest was abruptly quick? They read like one sentence lol
Also, looks like Lutz and Myne stepped it up to embracing after the handholding last week. Followed by a ringtone-worthy "Noooo" from Myne.

編集がぎこちなくて、時間の経過を見せる間がくしゃみに置き換わったんだと思ってた。あの一節だけ読んで終わりのはずがないって、俺も同じこと思ったからｗ

I assumed there was some awkward editing and a comfortable pause to show time passing was turned into a sneeze, because I had the same thought that they couldn’t have only read that one passage lol.

よそ行きの服の二人がかわいい
「ついに、本物の本のページ！！」
アニメあるある
❤
あの「いやぁぁ」がかわいすぎる
ってことは、神殿に入らなくても魔力を売ればいいんじゃ…
マインのふくれっ面、たまらん
今週の「みんなマインが大好き」（そりゃそうだ）
おっと、マインがフォーカスグループを発明したぞ
ルッツがかわいそう。早く慰めてやって
もう1話見られるし、第2期も来るし、ほんとうれしい

These two look cute in their Sunday Best
"At long last, actual book pages!!"
anime_irl
❤
That "nwoooo" is so cute
Soooo, that would naturally mean you could sell them your mana instead of having to join the church…
Hnnggg, Main pout
This week on Everybody Loves Main (and who can blame them?)
Uh-oh, Main just invented the focus group
Poor Lutz. Console the lad already
So glad I have another episode to watch, and another season coming later

フォーカスグループみたいに、物じゃないものも発明して教えられることがたくさんあるな

Oh so many non item things to invent and teach like the Focus Group.

あの、彼にしがみつく場面すごく分かる。好きな人にあんなふうにしがみつくのって最高なんだよね >//

That scene where she holds onto him is so relatable. Holding onto a guy you love like that is amazing >//

やっとこの人がちゃんと紹介された！
たしかに聖典っぽい聖典だ。書式なんてまるで無い。
あのポーズじゃこの宗教をまじめに受け取れないｗ
前に女の子が神父の管理する聖杯に触ったときは、ひどいことが起きたよな。
一応貴族もいるんだな。ただ中間管理職で、下っ端の仕事はしないと。
つまりマインを魔力の電池にしたいってことか
ああルッツ… 気持ちは分かるけど、少なくともマインは何か作るときはルッツを頼るって言ってくれてるから

We finally get formally introduced with this dude!
Those are some Holy Scriptures all right. Literally no formatting in sight.
I'll never take this religion seriously with that pose xD
Last time a little girl touched a grail being kept by a Priest something terrible happened.
Technically there are Nobles. It's just that they do middle management and not the grunt work.
So basically they need Myne to be their mana battery
Oh no Lutz 🙁 I feel for him, but at least Myne assures him that she'll still come to him when she needs to work on something.

>あのポーズじゃこの宗教をまじめに受け取れないｗ
でも図書室に入れるなら受け取るんだろ

I'll never take this religion seriously with that pose xD
but you will if it means getting into a library

単語の間にスペースがあるだけ感謝しろって

At least be thankful they have spaces between words.

マインのふくれっ面がかわいすぎる

Maine's pout face is just too adorable.

俺は「ギガふくれっ面」って呼んでる。ほっぺがカエルみたいにパンパンなんだよ

I call it the gigapout. Cheeks are just fully blown up like a damn frog.

マインはこれから家族やルッツと過ごす時間がずっと減りそうだな。まあ、少なくとも生きていられる。ベンノがすぐ動いてくれて本当によかった。ほんとに面倒見がいい。
それにやっと身食いが何なのかちゃんと説明された。そろそろだと思ってた。
なんて幸せそうな顔。本！照れてるマインもかわいい。お姫様みたいだ

It seems Myne will be spending much less time with her family and Lutz from now on. Well, at least she will be alive. So good that Benno was so quick to action. He really does care.
And they finally fully explained what Devouring is. Just about time.
What a blissful face. Books! Bashful Myne is cute too. She's like a princess here.

体も頭も子どもなんだから、子どもらしく振る舞うのは当然

She’s got the physical mind and body of a child, she’s gonna act like one.

うーん、どう言えばいいかな…
明日目が覚めたら脳にひどい損傷を負っていて、それまでの経験は全部覚えているのに、頭は7歳の頃に戻ってたと想像してみてくれ…どうなると思う？普通はほかにも深刻な障害が出るけど、話がそれるからそこは考えないでおく。
つまり、記憶と人格が残っていても、脳が別物になったらたいした得にはならないかもしれないってこと。
実質、マインは麗乃の意識・人格・記憶が7歳の女の子の体に入ってる状態なんだ。中身が20代なわけじゃない。天才的な頭脳を持った7〜10歳くらいなんだよ

Hrm, how should I say this...

Imagine you woke up tomorrow with severe brain damage, setting you back to when you were 7 years olds while simultaneously retaining all your past experiences... how's that gonna turn out? Usually that comes with other devastating damage, but we'll try to avoid thinking about that since it's tangential to the point being made.

All said, my point is that retaining your memories and personality may be a petty boon when your brain is no longer the same.

For all intents and purposes, Main is Urano's consciousness, personality and memories embedded into the body of a 7 year old girl. She isn't mentally in her 20s. She's 7-10 ish with prodigal intelligence.

これがマインの状況の一番うまい説明だわ。マインの行動は脳の問題なんだってずっと説得しようとしてるのに、みんな聞き流すんだよな

This is by far the best way of describing Myne's situation. I have been trying way too hard convincing people that Myne's actions is a brain thing but everyone just keeps brushing it off.

ルッツが動揺したのは、俺たちの世界にもあるみたいに、巫女は結婚できないからだと思ってた

I thought Lutz get upset because priestess can't get married, like some in our world.

間違えて第14話から見始めて、めちゃくちゃ混乱した

I was so confused when I started watching episode 14 first.

待てよ、マインが神殿に入れば助かるってベンノが知ってたなら、なんで今になって初めて言うんだよ？？？？そもそも神殿は魔力に困ってるんだから、入る必要すらない。「寄付」させてくれて、あとは放っておいてもらえばいいじゃん！そりゃ貴族のリスクはあるけど、確実な死ほどじゃないだろ！

Wait, if Benno knew that Main could survive by joining the Church, WHY THE F**K IS THIS THE FIRST TIME HE MENTIONS IT???? Hell, the church being in need of mana as it is, Main wouldn't even need to join - they could allow her to make "donations" and leave her alone otherwise! Sure there's risk from the nobles, but not as much risk as CERTAIN DEATH!

俺もそう思ったけど、神殿ってだいたいろくでもないから、安定した供給源が喉から手が出るほど欲しい以上、寄付だけで済ませてはくれないんだろうな。
ベンノは、一度神殿と関わったら簡単には抜けさせてもらえないって心配してるんだと思う

That's what I was thinking but knowing how bad churches are in general, I'd imagine that the church wouldn't let her just make a donation because they're desperate for a reliable source.
Benno is likely worried that once she's in business with the church, they won't let her just walk away.

トゥーリもいつか妹の陰に隠れてると感じるときが来るはず。怒るっていうより悲しむんだろうな。すごくいい子だから

There has to be a point where Turi is going to feel that shadow from her younger sister. I don't think it will make her angry so much as sad since she's such a nice girl.

今回もいい回だった。思ってたとおり、ベンノはマインのことを本当に気にかけてる。神殿とこの世界の設定もさらに分かったし、マインが自分の条件で神殿に入れるかもっていう計画がよく練られてて好き。NANAの一気見と、青ブタの映画と、今日の慎重勇者の後だったから、ちょうどこういうゆったりした回が見たかった。ところで第2期への期待が高まってきた。追記：マインのふくれっ面が尊い。今週の最後の絵はちょっと不気味だった

Well, another good episode. As I suspected, Benno really cares for Main. We also got more lore about the church and this world, and I really like how well-crafted is the plan for Main potentially joining the Church on her own terms. That's exactly what I needed after part of my Nana binge, Dreaming Girl movie and today's episode of Cautious Hero. A nice, slower episode. BTW hype for S2 starts to develop for me. Edit: Main Pout is too precious, the art in the end was kinda creepy this week

今回のマインのふくれっ面と、ルッツに連れていかれるときの「いやぁぁ」と、どっちが好きか決められない。今期一番好きな作品だから終わるのは寂しいけど、第2期があってよかった

I don't know what I love more all the pouting Main did this episode or her yelling No when carried away by Lutz. This has been my favorite series this season and sad to see it go, but thankful it's getting a season 2.

つまり青い髪の人がこの町の神殿のトップで、ひげの人がその上の地域の責任者ってこと？昇進ってどうなってるんだろ。マインも出世して大巫女とかになれるかも

So, the blue-haired guy is the head of the city’s church branch, and the guy with the beard is the regional manager? How do promotions work? Maybe Maïn can work her way up to High Priestess or similar.

むしろ、じいさんのほうはお飾りで日々のことは何もしてなくて、実際に仕切ってるのは青い髪のほうって感じがする

It seems more like the old guy is the figurehead that doesn't actually do anything as far as the day to day. And the blue haired guy is actually running the show there.

日本語の役職名からすると、ひげのほうがあの神殿の長で、青い髪のほうは普通の神官の中で一番位が高い人。
つまり支店長と、そのすぐ下で働くマネージャーって感じ

Going by the JP terms for them, beardy is the head of that particular church, and blue guy has the highest rank among all the normal priests.
Basically, a branch head and the manager working directly under him.

あれだけ本好きのくせに、マインってほんと頭悪いな

for someone who likes reading so much, maine sure is stupid.

この回見てる間ずっとそう思ってた

I was thinking that the whole time watching this episode

ピルってホルモン剤だから、飲むと人が変になることがあるだろ？それと似たようなもんで、ホルモンってのはとんでもない薬なんだよ。10代がどこでも揃いも揃ってクソガキなのには理由がある。全員とは言わないけど、かなりの割合でな。
ホルモンは感情や思考に直接影響する。リック・アンド・モーティの「タイニー・リック」の回みたいなもんだ。しかもそれは、年月とともに脳そのものが変わっていくことすら考えに入れてない。
神経科学ってのは、まあ脳外科みたいなもんだ

You know how the pill, being a hormone contraceptive can make people act real weird sometimes? Well same kinda thing, hormones are a hell of a drug. Like there is a reason that teenagers are universally such shitheads. Like not all of them, but a large percentage.
Hormones have a direct impact on you emotion/thought processioning. It's like that episode of Rick and Morty with the whole Tiny Rick thing. Which even that doesn't take into account the physical changes in your brain over time.
Neuroscience, it's like brain surgery or something

ベンノほんといい人だな。最初はとっつきにくいとか、ちょっと偉そうなタイプかと思ってたけど、出てくるたびに好きになっていく

Man, Benno is such a nice dude. Originally thought he was going to be some kind of standoff-ish or slightly arrogant kind of guy, but every second of screentime has only increased my liking of him.

おもしろい、マインは見習いの服を着てたよな。でも自分の分を手に入れたって話は出てなかった。前回お店でルッツの新しい服の話をしてたとき、訳が間違ってたのかな

Interesting, she was wearing her apprentice clothes I suppose, but it wasn´t mentioned that she got some herself. I wonder if it was mistranslated in the last episode when they were in the shop and mentioned Lutz getting new clothing.

その場面はカットされたんだよ

They skipped the scenes.

第1部を1クールに収めるために、ものすごくたくさん削られてる。かなりかなりかなり後の筋まで削ってるし

So much got skipped to condense Part I into a single season. They are cutting out some very very very late plot lines.

詳しく教えてくれる？

Can you elaborate on that?

うわ。マインの進路変更に反応があるとは思ってたけど、ここまでピリピリするとは思わなかった。でもベンノの反応はだいたい予想どおり。
しかもｗ ルッツがほんとにマインの襟首つかんで引きずり始めたし

Wow. I mean I knew there'd be a reaction to Myne's proposed career change but I was not expecting it to be this tense. But Benno's reaction to it was about what I was expecting.
And ha! Lutz actually did start dragging Myne by the collar.

今回もいい回だった。いいクリスマスプレゼント 😛

Another great episode and a nice xmas present 😛

見る作品が多すぎてこれ見逃してた。おすすめ？見る価値ある？

Had so many seasonals to watch I kind of missed this one. Would anyone recommend this? Is it worth the watch?

「奴隷を持てるのに、なんでわざわざ労働者を雇うんだ」ってのが基本的な考え方なんだよ

"why have a worker when you can have a slave" is basically how they are thinking.

みんな現代の感覚で見てるんだよ。フリーダは身食いに関係なく、そもそも自分で夫を選べるとは思ってなかった。おじいさんはかなりの立場の人だから、どのみち有力な家に嫁がせようとしてたはず。だからこれは彼女にとってかなりいい条件なんだよ

People are looking at it from a modern perspective. Frieda never expected to choose her husband regardless of the devouring. Her grand father is in a pretty important position so it's pretty likely he was always going to try to marry her into some powerful family. So this is actually a pretty good deal for her.

やっぱり納得いかない。神殿は身食いの子を積極的に探すべきだろ。家族と離れたくないなら、別の取り決めをすればいい。
一番納得いかないのは、ベンノがこれを全部知ってたのに、一度もマインに言わなかったことだ

Still makes no sense to me. The Church should be actively seeking kids with the Devouring. And if they don't want to leave their families, they can work out other arrangements.
What makes the least sense of all is that Benno knew all this and never bothered to mention it to Main.

みんなフリーダの取引を悪く言うのはやめろって。すごくいい条件だし、お前らは彼女の未来の「旦那」のことを何も知らないだろ

People need to stop dissing on Frieda's deal. It'a a great deal and Ya'll know nothing about her future "hubby".

そうそう、ギルド長はわざわざイカれてない相手を選んだんだから、そんなに悪くないはず

Ya, the Guildmaster purposely picked out someone who wasn't a psychopath so he shouldn't be too bad.

マインは厳密に言えば、彼らに会う前に一度死んでるんだよ。魔力の多い子はたいてい耐えきれなくて、すごく小さいうちに「熱」で死ぬ。マインは大人の心を持ってて、熱を気力で抑え込めるから特別なんだ

Maine technically died before ever meeting them. Kids with lots of magic power typically can't handle it and die super young from a "fever". Maine is special in that she has an adult mental persona to deal with the fever using willpower.

あとマインと父さんの体格差もな

And the proportions between Maïn and her dad.

ほんとそれ！巨人がご飯食べてるみたいに見えるｗ

yeah! honestly looks like a titan having his food...

まあ、7歳がその年までに知ってることだけで一生の仕事を選ばされる社会だからな。その判断に欠かせない情報を知らないのは、誰かの落ち度だよ

Well, this is a society where a 7-year-old is expected to choose a career for life, knowing only what is known by that age. Not knowing critical information for that decision is a failure by someone

でも身食いが何なのか、ほとんどの人は知らないみたいだぞ

Most people don't seem to know what the Devouring is though

魔術具を手に入れる方法を探してたんだと思う

My bet is he was looking for a way to obtain magical objects.

神殿はめちゃくちゃ弱ってて、子どもを探す人手なんて無いんだよ
しかも学校が無いから、一軒一軒回るしかない

the church is weak AF and cant and dont have the manpower to search for kids
whats worse schools dont exist so they would have to go house by house

なんでこの口説き文句、俺には一度も効いたことがないんだろう

Why has this pickup line never worked for me.

症状を説明するのがそんなに難しいか？フリーダもベンノも、マインの様子を聞いただけですぐ分かったじゃん

How hard is it to describe the symptoms? Frieda and Benno both understood right away from hearing the description of what Main was going through.

なあ、身食いを持ってるフリーダと、商品や客の求めるものを知るのが生業で、フリーダのおじいさんとしょっちゅう取引してるベンノが、マインの話してるのが身食いだって分かるの、すごく不思議だよな？
まるで二人とも身近にそれを知ってて、普通の人には無い事情を持ってるみたいだ

Yeah, isn't it super weird how Frieda - someone who has the Devouring - and Benno - someone whose entire livelihood involves knowing about products and what people want, and works with Frieda's grandfather regularly - both know that what Myne is describing is the Devouring?
It's almost as if they both have personal knowledge of it, therefore having context that most people never would have.

でも、死ぬ以外に選択肢は無かったんだろ。マインはもう両親に、長くてもあと1年だって伝えてる。奇跡の治療法でも見つかると思ってたのか？

Well, there was no other option besides her dying. She told her parents already that she has a year at most. Did he expect to find a miracle cure?

そういう社会での暮らしがすごく興味深く描かれてるから、『乙嫁語り』（英語だと A Bride's Story）を読んでみるといいと思う。どの立場にも敬意を払った作品だと思う。
だからってそこに戻るべきだって話じゃない。あの作品自体が描いてるように、型にうまくはまらない人がいると問題が起きる。靴職人の息子が靴職人になりたくなかったら？鍛冶屋になりたかったら？
この作品の社会も『乙嫁語り』と似ていて、みんな普通は親と同じ道を進む。大人になるころには親に教わって腕に自信が付いてたり、親をかっこいいと思ってたりして、たぶん大半の人はそれで満足してる。でもルッツやマインみたいに「違うもの」になりたい「はみ出し者」とは、基本的に相性が悪い社会なんだよ

I think it's worth reading *Otoyomegatari*, or *A Bride's Story* as it's called in English, to see a very interesting rendition of life in such society. I believe it shows great respect to all sides of the aisle.

Which is not to say that we should go back to it. As the story itself illustrates, the problems arise when someone doesn't conveniently fit into the mold. What if the shoecobbler's son doesn't want to become a shoecobbler? What if he'd rather be a smith?

The society shown in this series is similar to *A Bride's Story* in that everyone normally follow the paths of their parents. And most of them are probably happy with that, because they've been taught by their parents and feel confident in their skills by the time they're grown up, or they think their parents are cool, etc. But it is a society that's generally incompatible with "deviants" - anyone who wants to be something *different* like Lutz or Main.

みんなが先に事情を考えてたら、怒る回数は100分の1になるだろうけど、怒りってそういうもんじゃないんだよな

If people considered context first, people wouldn't get angry 1% as often, but that ain't how anger works.

その話の持っていき方はちょっと雑だと思う。
子どもは親から教わる。7歳になったら、何かしらの仕事を探せる基礎知識を持ってることが求められる。最初の仕事が見習い。これは長いあいだ世界中でよくあるやり方だった。マインの母さんはお針子で、トゥーリも同じ道を進むことになってる。ほかに教えられる人がいないからだ。
それが一生の仕事になるのか？たぶんな。でも自分で選んだわけじゃない。ほとんどの人には親の道から外れる余裕が無い。だからルッツの母さんは心配してたんだ。ほぼ確実に本人が痛い目を見る道だから。
要するに、仕事は選ぶものじゃなくて、やれる範囲で決まるものなんだよ

That is a somewhat clumsy way of approaching this topic.

The children are taught by their parents. When the children reach 7, they are expected to have the foundational knowledge to seek some amount of work. This starting job is their apprenticeship. This was fairly common practice across the world for a long time. Main's mother is a seamstress, and Tuuli is expected to follow that same path - because nobody else could teach her.

Is this their lifelong career choice? *Probably*. But not by choice. Most of them do not have the resources to stray from their parents' shadow. That's why Lutz' mother was concerned, because it's almost inevitably a path that leads to personal devastation.

TL;DR - Their career is not really a choice. It's what they can afford to do.

お触れを出せばいいだけだろ。そうすりゃ向こうから来る

All they have to do is make an announcement. People would come to them.

女性が結婚相手をめったに選べなかったことを思い出させてくれてありがとう。
ミュージカル『屋根の上のバイオリン弾き』で10代の娘たちが「マッチメーカー、いい相手を見つけて」って歌って、相手が60代じゃありませんようにって言うんだよな。
資料を見る限り、女の子が年の近い男の子と一緒になれる唯一の方法は駆け落ちだった。でも支えてくれる家族がいなければ、たいていは屋根とまずい飯のためにどこかで働く、とんでもなく貧しい暮らしになる

Thanks for reminding females rarely had a choice in marriage.
Musical Fiddler on the Roof Teen Daughters sing "Matchmaker make them a match" and mention they hope the match is not in their 60's.
From sources only way a girl got a boy a few years within her age is if they eloped and ran away. Without a family to support them though that was going to be a extra hard poverty filled life normally taking a job for a roof and crap food somewhere.

それに、見ず知らずの人が知らないのは分かるけど、ベンノたちにはそれほど言い訳が立たない。彼女が変わった新しい発想を持ってることも、常識や知識がほとんど無いことも、もう十分分かってるはずだし。
それに、喋り方を聞いて7歳だってことを忘れるのは分かるけど、顔を見たらその錯覚はすぐ解けるだろ

And while it makes sense for strangers to not know, individuals like Benno and so on have much less of an excuse. They're well aware that she holds strange and novel ideas, but they're also keenly aware by now that she's got virtually no common sense or knowledge.
And while it makes sense to forget she's 7 years old from how she speaks, that illusion should immediately break down when you're staring her in the face.

うん、俺も「勘弁してやれよ、子どもなんだから」ってよく思うけど、一方であれがあの世界の子育てなのかもしれない。20世紀初めには、いい家の子は親に敬語で話さなきゃいけなかった（少なくともドイツでは）。体罰や、言葉の暴力になるくらい怒鳴りつけるのが今よりずっと許されてたのも、そう昔のことじゃない。年上の親戚から聞いた戦後の話には、ぞっとするものもある。一方で、親になった世代、特に兵士として第二次大戦を経験した男たちは、いろいろ問題を抱えてた。
でもほんと、ベンノがキレるたびに、落ち着けよって思う。マインはバカじゃないんだから、つねったり怒鳴ったりしなくていい。ちゃんと分かってるよ。
それにこの状況はベンノのせいでもある。身食いが魔力のことだって、だいぶ前に教えられたはずだし

Yeah I often think, give her a break, she´s a kid, OTOH it might be their kind of raising kids. In the early 20th century kids from better families had to adress their parents in a formal way (in Germany at least) and it´s not so long ago that physical punishment and screaming up to the point of verbal abuse were a lot more acceptable than today. What I heard from older relatives from the post war period is rather chilling at times. OTOH especially men who went through WW 2 as soldiers and were the parents had quite a lot of issues.

But yeah every time Benno goes ballistic I think that he should calm down and get a grip. Myne´s not dumb, you don´t need to pinch her or whatever or scream at her. She gets it quite fine.

Anyways the situation is his fault at well, he could have told her about the devouring being mana quite some time ago.

マインは、熱が特定の動き方をするとか、もっと具体的な症状を言葉にできる年だった。身食いの子がふつう何歳で死ぬのか知らないけど、大半がもっと小さいうちに力尽きるなら、ちゃんと説明できないかもしれない。フリーダがかかった病気だから、フリーダが身食いだって気づいたのは驚くことじゃない。似た症状で身食いじゃない子を、彼女が身食いだと誤診することもかなりありそう。ベンノなんて確信が持てなくて、マインが別のところから聞くまで言わなかったし。
それに珍しい病気だから、似た症状の子の大半は別の病気なんだろう。
たぶん一番の問題は、神殿のこの状況が一時的なものだってこと。今は神官が足りないけど、次の世代が育って、貴族がまた余った子どもを神殿に放り込み始めたら増えるんだろう。たとえすごく珍しくても、平民にも魔力があるって神殿が公にしたら、貴族はいい顔しないと思う。自分たちの立場が揺らぐし、平民が変な気を起こすかもしれない。
神殿はそんなに力を持ってないんだと思う。豊作を守るとか、たぶんほかにも欠かせない役目を果たしてるのに、貴族に人手も資源も吸い取られてる。神殿で見た道具は聖杯だけじゃなかったし。だから身食いのことを公にするのを禁じられてるのかもしれない

Myne was old enough to articulate the more specific symptoms like the heat behaving in a specific way. I don´t know when kids with devouring usually die, but if the majority give up at a younger age, they might not be able to ariculate it properly. It´s the sickness Frieda had, so her going it´s the devouring wasn´t surprising. It´s quite likely she would misdiagnose othe rkids with similar symptoms who don´t have the devouring. Benno was so unsure that he didn´t tell Myne until she got it from another source.

It´s also a rare disease so it´s likely that most kids with similar symptoms are suffering from something else.

Probably the main issue is that it´s a temporary situation at the church. They are currently lacking priests, but they will probably get more in the future as soon as the next generation is old enough and nobles start dumping their extra kids in the church again. I assume nobility wouldn´t be too happy about the church making it public that commoners can have mana, too, even if it´s really rare. It might hurt their standing and the commoners might get ideas.

I assume that the church isn´t that influential. Nobility drained them of manpower and resources for their own benefits, despite them providing essential services like ensuring good harvests and probably others. The grail wasn´t the only item we saw in the temple. So it might be that they are forbidden from making the devouring public.

体は7歳だけど、麗乃＋マインなんだから、頭の中はたぶん16歳以上だろ

She's phisically 7, but remember that she's Urano + Myne, so mentally she's probably over 16

マインの場合はフリーダとは違うよ。コネも力も無いから、フリーダより貴族といい条件を結べない

Maines case would be different from frieda. She has no connections nor power to get a better deal with a noble than frieda had.

じゃあ、こう考えてみろ。
マインが身食いじゃなかったら、ギルド長はマインがあの家に一人でいたわずかな間に、両親に（お金でも気持ちでも）大きな圧力をかけて、自分の店に移らせてたはずだ。
あの人のやり方は、貴族に比べればやさしいもんだよ

Well, let's put it this way.
If Main didn't have the Devouring, the guildmaster would have put major pressure on her parents (financial, emotional, etc) to force her to transfer to his company during the brief time she was alone in his house.
His methods are nice compared to nobles'.

>聖杯に触ると両方得するってことだよ。神殿は魔力が手に入って、子どもは身食いを抑えられる。何が問題なんだ？
政治の問題じゃない？それを日常的にやったら、平民にも魔力があって役に立つ、それどころか経済に欠かせないって認めることになる。気づいたらそれを盾に「給料上げろ」とか「政治に参加させろ」とか言い出すぞ

What I don't get is that if touching the grail benefits both parties, because the church gets mana and the kids get their Devouring placated, why there's any problem at all.
Political issues? You do that regularly, you start acknowledging that commoners have mana and can be useful, in fact, essential to the economy. Next thing you know they'll be leveraging that to ask for stuff like "better pay", "political representation" and such.

>症状の一覧がベンノとフリーダに病気だと分かるくらい具体的なら、そうだろ。
ベンノとフリーダに分かったのは、直接知ってたからだよ。フリーダは身食いだし、ベンノはほとんどの平民よりずっと物を知ってる。現実でも、うつ病がよくある病気なのに、それが何なのかよく分かってない人はたくさんいる。身食いは珍しいうえに、小さな子がふつう周りに分かるほどうまく説明できるものじゃない。
>それが何の関係があるんだ？
もともと情報を広めるのはかなり難しいって指摘してたんだよ。だって
>一つ二つじゃなくて、全部の症状だってはっきり言えばいいだけ。
えっと…釣りか？本気で言ってるなら医者に行ったほうがいい。現実の病気の症状のいくつかが当てはまるだけで人がどうなるか、今まさに例を挙げたばかりだろ。何も知らない平民ならもっとひどいことになる。神殿が「全部の症状がそろってないとダメ」って言っても関係ない。平民はパニックになるし、子どもが死ぬかもしれないものを無視する危険は冒したくないんだから。
>マインは魔力があるからものすごく貴重でかけがえのない存在だって、今言ったばかりじゃないか。
そうだよ、魔力がたくさんあって、しかも自分から進んで神殿で働きたいって子だからな。
いいか、当たりの宝くじはすごく価値があるけど、だからって当たりを狙って見かけた宝くじを全部買ったりはしない。マインみたいな子は貴重かもしれないけど、外れをたくさんつかむのは高くつく。魔力のある子が見つかる「かもしれない」ってだけで、資源を無駄にしたくはないんだろう

>If that list of symptoms was specific enough to make Benno and Frieda identify the disease, then yes.

It only worked for Benno and Frieda because they had first hand knowledge of it. Frieda has the Devouring, and Benno is far more informed than most commoners. There are a lot of people in the real world who don't really understand what depression is, and it's a very common affliction. The Devouring, on the other hand, is rare, and is something that a small child typically won't be able to describe properly enough to make anyone understand what they have.

>What does that have to do with anything?

I was pointing out that it's already highly unlikely they can get the word out, because

>They just need to be clear it's all the symptoms not one or two.

I... Are you trolling? Seriously, if you aren't, then you need to see a doctor. I literally just gave a real world example of people sharing only a few of the symptoms people with real world diseases have. Extremely uninformed commoners will react even worse. It doesn't matter if the Church says "They have to have all of these symptoms", because Commoners will still panic and won't want to take the risk of ignoring what could literally kill their children.

>You just claimed that Main is oh so super valuable and irreplaceable asset because of her mana.

Yes, because she's someone with a lot of mana that wants to *willingly* work at the Church.

Look, a winning lottery ticket is super valuable, but I'm not going to start buying every lottery ticket I see in the hopes that I get a winner. Children like Myne may be valuable, but getting a lot of false leads is expensive, and so they may not be too keen on wasting resources in the hopes that they *might* find a child with mana.

フリーダは見つけてもらえたけど、それは貴族とよく取引してる家だったからだよ…
貴族の誰かが事情に気づいて、壊れかけの魔術具を売りつけて借りを作らせるためにギルド長に教えたんだとしても驚かない

Frieda got identified, in a family that deals a lot with nobles...
I wouldn't be surprised if some Noble figured out what was going on and told the guildmaster to be able to sell him the broken magic tools and to have him in debt

でもそれを知ってるのはルッツだけだろ

But only Lutz knows that.

中身はだいたい25歳くらいで、周りもよくそのくらいの年みたいに扱うけど、本人はだいたい7歳らしく振る舞ってるんだよな

mentally she more around 25 and often people threat her like she is that old, but she generally acts and behave as a 7 years old.

大商人の一家が、こんな大事なことで損な取引をすると思うか？

You think a family of top merchants would be capable of making a bad deal for something so important.

神殿でのふつうの扱いが、青色の貴族に仕える灰色の奴隷だっていうなら…どっちにしろ同じじゃない？
危機に陥ってる神殿のほうが、プライドの高い貴族よりずっと交渉しやすいだろうし…
でもこれは「語り手が信用できない」パターンでもあるんだよな。貴族という選択肢を勧めた二人は、身食いのことを主に貴族を通して知ってて、神殿よりも貴族とのほうがずっと付き合いが多いんだから

If the default treatment is being a gray robed slave to the blue robe nobles... Isn't it the same anyway?
The church in a crisis would be a lot easier to nolegotiate with then proud nobles...
But it's also a case of unreliable narrators, both people that suggested the Noble alternative primarily know about the devouring trough nobles and deal with them a lot more then they deal with the Church.

知ってる人の大半がそれを広めたくないなら、情報を広めること自体が問題になる

Getting information around is the issue if most people that know about it don't want it to be common knowledge.

本来のマインは力尽きるまで、しばらく熱に苦しんでた。フリーダは早いうちに見つかったから助かった。その症状が広く知られるようになれば、簡単に見分けられるはずだ

The real Main was suffering from the fever for a while before succumbing. Frieda's condition was identified early enough to save her. If it became common knowledge what those symptoms are, they'd be easily identified.

>一番納得いかないのは、ベンノがこれを全部知ってたのに、一度もマインに言わなかったことだ
うん、それはただの設定の穴だな。そういう道があるなら、「貴族の愛人になるか、神殿に入るか」の二択がみんな知ってる選択肢になってるはずだろ。身食いの平民が大量に神官になってそうなもんだ

What makes the least sense of all is that Benno knew all this and never bothered to mention it to Main.
Yeah, that's just a plot hole. If it's a thing, then obviously "become the concubine of a noble OR go into the Church" should have been the two options everyone knows. You'd expect there to be a massive influx of commoners with Devouring joining the ranks of the priesthood.

ラノベ版とWeb版には、見習いの服を手に入れるみたいな日常の話に割かれた章があって、ラノベには脇役の視点で掘り下げる番外編もある。
たとえば、マインがスープを作って、ちょっと魔法っぽい野菜に出くわす場面はアニメでは飛ばされた。神殿長と初めて会ったときの会話の一部もそう。
漫画版のほうが章をきちんと映像化してる。作者が筋やキャラの細かいところで作画の人と積極的に協力してるから

In the LN and WN versions there are chapters devoted daily life stuff such as her getting her apprentice outfits, and LN has side stories that further explore support characters from their perspective.

For example, anime skipped over the scene about Myne cooking soup and encountering some of the more magical vegetables. Or when she first met the Temple head, some of the conversations they had.

The manga has a more complete adaptation of the chapters, since the author actively works with the artists on plot and character details.

単に、作者がまだその設定を思いついてなかっただけだと思う

My bet is that the author just hadn't come up with that plot point yet.

知りようのないことで子どもに理不尽に怒る大人なんて、いつでもいるよ。見ていて気分のいいものじゃないし、あっちゃいけないことだけど、お前が言うみたいな奇妙で異常な現象ってわけじゃない

People get unreasonably angry at kids for things they couldn't possibly know all the time. It's not pretty and should never be the case, but it's no bizarre and alien phenomenon like you seem to imply.

政治と力関係だよ
神殿はそれを公にしたくない。でもタダの魔力源は欲しい。この二つは別の話なんだ

politics and power dynamics

The church does not want it to be public knowledge, but they would want free mana sources. Those are not the same thing

子どもが手榴弾みたいなもので遊んでたら、親がああいう反応をするのは普通だろ

It's a normal reaction for a parent when their child is playing the the equivalent of a hand grenade

聖杯が本当に神官の言うとおりのことができるのかは、まだ分からない。何か分かってない事情があって単純な話じゃないのか、それともみんなバカなのか。
でも、もし本当にできるなら完全に同意する。これは大きな設定の穴だ

We still don't know if the grail actually can do what the priest said it does, there is some unknown information that doesn't make this so straightforward, or everyone is an idiot.

However, if it does, I completely agree with you. This is a major plot hole.

それがたまたま目に付いた一場面だけならそうだけど、何か知らないたびにみんながマインを怒鳴りつけるのが、毎度のことになってる感じがするんだよ

If this was the only moment that stood out to me, then sure. But this feels like a trend to me of everyone shouting at her for not knowing things.

まあ、選択肢が無ければ、そもそも迷うことも無いからな

Well, if there were no choice, there would be no questions about it.

神殿の奴隷になるのは現実的な選択肢じゃないし、それにマインはフリーダに勧められたみたいに貴族に縛られるより、家族と一緒にいたいんだよ

because being a slave to temple is not a viable option, plus she wanna be with her family rather than being chained for the noble as suggested by Frieda

たまに、戦争や疫病で家族が死んで、貴族の子どもが家の当主になることがあった。めったにないことだけど、家の領地を守りきれた場合は、けっこういい暮らしができた

Occasionally a noble kid's family will die off in a war or plague and leave them as the one in charge of the house. It was rare, but when they managed to hold on to the family's holdings, they had pretty decent lives

>ベンノと**フリーダ**に分かったのは、直接知ってたからだよ。**フリーダ**は身食いだし
…
>**小さな子**がふつう周りに分かるほどうまく説明できるものじゃない。
自分の言ってることが矛盾してるの、本当に気づいてないのか？
>えっと…釣りか？本気で言ってるなら医者に行ったほうがいい。現実の病気の症状のいくつかが当てはまるだけで人がどうなるか、今まさに例を挙げたばかりだろ。何も知らない平民ならもっとひどいことになる。神殿が「全部の症状がそろってないとダメ」って言っても関係ない。平民はパニックになるし、子どもが死ぬかもしれないものを無視する危険は冒したくないんだから。
平民がパニックになって、「もしかしたら」で怖い貴族のところに押しかける？無いね。
それに賭けてもいいけど、身食いは平民のあいだじゃ全然珍しくないと思う。作中で紹介された子どもはほんの数人なのに、そのうち**二人**がこの「すごく珍しい病気」なんだぞ。実際はわりとよくある病気なのに、平民は誰も自分の子が本当は何で死んでるのか分かってない、ってほうがずっとありそうだ

> It only worked for Benno and **Frieda** because they had first hand knowledge of it. **Frieda** has the Devouring

...

> something that **a small child** typically won't be able to describe properly enough to make anyone understand what they have.

Are you seriously not seeing the inconsistency in your statements?

> I... Are you trolling? Seriously, if you aren't, then you need to see a doctor. I literally just gave a real world example of people sharing only a few of the symptoms people with real world diseases have. Extremely uninformed commoners will react even worse. It doesn't matter if the Church says "They have to have all of these symptoms", because Commoners will still panic and won't want to take the risk of ignoring what could literally kill their children.

Commoners will panic and bother scary nobles on "what if" scenarios? No.

And I'm willing to bet the Devouring is not rare at all among the Commoners. We've only been introduced to a few children in the show and **two** of them have this "super rare disease." No, it's far more likely that it's actually relatively common but none of the commoners have a clue what their children are really dying off.

これは完全に同意。マインが一番ひどい目に遭ってるけど、子どもはみんな多かれ少なかれこういう扱いをされてる。作品が子どもを、子どもじゃなくて小さな大人として扱ってるからだよ。考え方も喋り方も振る舞いも、本物の子どもとは違う。俺は勝手に、この世界の子どもは精神の成長がすごく早くて、作中の年齢より実質10歳くらい上なんだって脳内設定にしてる

I'm in complete agrement with you on this. Maine gets it the worst, but all the kids recieve this treatment to some degree. It's cause the show acts like kids are just tiny adults instead of, y'know, kids. They don't think, speak, or act like real children do. I'm just head cannoning that the kids in this universe grow much faster mentally and are all effectively 10ish mental years older than the show says they are.

もしあの神殿が俺たちの歴史上の教会みたいに独身を守るところなら、俺も貴族と結婚するほうを選ぶ。貴族の贅沢な暮らしに乗り換えたくない人なんているか？まともな夫に当たって、権力争いに関われる見込みだって十分ある。神殿はたぶん行き止まりで、身分を上がっていく道は無い。女性ならなおさら。
教会ってのは昔から、人生の最後の逃げ場か、熱心な信者が行くところだったからな

If that church is at anything like our historic church with celibacy and all then I would also choose to marry noble. Who wouldn't want to change to live in luxury life of aristocracy? There is even good change that one could get decent husband and actually get involved in all that power play. Church would in high probably be dead end and no way to climb in social ladder. Especially for females.

Church in usually has always be last resort in life or for fanatics.

いや、すごく不思議なのは、身食いに苦しんでる子の家族や本人が、神殿の出した症状の一覧を見ても「そう、これだ」って気づけないってお前が言ってることのほうだよ

No, what's super weird is that you're saying the family of a child suffering from the Devouring and the child themselves would not be able to recognize a list of symptoms announced by the Church as "Yes, this is what this is."

見つけてもらうには、症状に気づいてもらう必要があった。それって基本的な知識だろ。この症状＝身食い、って。子どものフリーダが、マインの説明を聞いて症状に気づけたんだぞ。自分の症状も、周りの大人が気づけるくらいには伝えられた。何が問題なんだ？

To get identified, her symptoms needed to be recognized. That's just basic knowledge: these symptoms = The Devouring. Frieda, a child, was able to recognize the symptoms when Main described them. She was also able to communicate her own symptoms enough for the adults around her to recognize them. What's the issue?

神殿は、魔力の発生源をたくさん手に入れるために、それを広く知らせたいはずだろ。広まってほしくない人なんているか？

The Church would want it to be common knowledge so that they can get plenty mana generators. Who would *not* want it to be common knowledge?